(update July 18, 2010)
! There is a known issue when running MCE (7), and mceRemote2VLC in the background.
In this scenario, the remote does not correctly communicate wit MCE. I hope to have a fix ready in August.
philips-mce-remote
Background:
At home I use Windows Media Center available on Windows 7. It’s a great program but it doesn’t play all the video codecs and file types that I have in my library. Even advanced codec packs like sharks “Windows 7 codecs” do not always solve this problem. To the rescue comes VLC . A media player that can handle almost any media file you throw at it. When using VLC however, I’m no longer able to use my Media Center Remote Control.
Say hello to mceRemote2vlc:
I decided to try and build an application to handle this, without incorporating this functionality into VLC, but using VLC’s excellent RC interface. In short it allows you to control a running VLC instance by communicating with VLC’s built-in TCP-server.
If you want to give it a try be sure to:
- Go to Tools-Preferences.
Select Show All settings (bottom left corner)
Click on Interface->Main interfaces
Check “Remote control interface”
Click on Interface->Main interfaces->RC
Enter in the field “TCP command input”: 127.0.0.1:8765
Check “Do not open a DOS command box interface”
- Install the .NET Framework 3.5 (if not already available)
- Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7
- A Windows MCE Remote , the following eHome compatible remote devices should be supported:
- Microsoft/Philips 2005
- Microsoft/Philips 2004
- HP
- FIC Spectra/Mycom Mediacenter
- Toshiba/Hauppauge SMK MCE remote
- Hauppauge OEM MCE remote
- Mitsumi MCE remote
- Fujitsu Scaleo-E
- Pinnacle PCTV Remote
- Shuttle MCE Remote
- Centarea Master Remote II
Supported buttons and default mappings:
| button | vlc_command | Description |
|---|---|---|
| None | none | |
| Power1 | none | |
| Left | menu left | navigate menu |
| Right | menu right | navigate menu |
| Pause | pause | pause |
| Power2 | quit | exit vlc |
| PowerTV | none | |
| Stop | stop | stop playback |
| Record | record | ? |
| Rewind | key key-jump-short | go 10 seconds back |
| Play | play | play |
| Forward | key key-jump+short | skip 10 seconds |
| Replay | previous | previous playlist item |
| Skip | next | next playlist item |
| Back | previous | previous playlist item |
| Up | menu up | navigate menu |
| Info | key key-intf-show | toggle display interface in fullscreen mode |
| Ok | menu select | menu select |
| VolumeUp | key key-vol-up | volume up |
| VolumeDown | key key-vol-down | volume down |
| Start | none | |
| ChannelUp | chapter_n | next chapter |
| ChannelDown | chapter_p | previous chapter |
| Mute | key key-vol-mute | mute sound |
| RecordedTV | f | toggle fullscreen |
| Guide | none | |
| LiveTV | none | |
| DVDMenu | key key-disc-menu | show dvd disc menu |
| NumPad1 | none | |
| NumPad2 | none | |
| NumPad3 | none | |
| NumPad4 | none | |
| NumPad5 | none | |
| NumPad6 | none | |
| NumPad7 | none | |
| NumPad8 | none | |
| NumPad9 | none | |
| NumPad0 | none | |
| Oem8 | none | |
| OemGate | none | |
| Clear | none | |
| Enter | none | |
| Teletext | key key-aspect-ratio | toggle aspect ratio |
| Red | key key-aspect-ratio | toggle aspect ratio |
| Green | key key-deinterlace | deinterlace |
| Yellow | key key-subtitle-track | toggle through all subtitles |
| Blue | key key-audio-track | toggle through all audio tracks |
| AspectRatio | key key-aspect-ratio | toggle aspect ratio |
| none | ||
| Down | menu down | navigate menu |
Download:
Stable 1.0
www.arenddeboer.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/Setupv1.0.10.zip
Beta
New version:
- Users can change the ip and port number
- More accurate device (ir remote) status
- SQLite db is stored in “users\AppData\mceRemote2VLC\” instead of the “Program Files\mceRemote2VLC”
This new version will not import your old custom mappings.
If you don’t need user defined ip/port settings, you probably don’t need to update.
A big “thank you” goes to the team of MediaPortal as most of the functionality is coming right out of this project
| navigate menu |
I just wanted to report that it still works. :p
thanks, Its good to know my work was not in vain
What does the MSI installer actually install? What I’m wanting to do is to be able to map the keys to my URC MX-980. Do you have the hex equivalents for the keys?
Hi, i have the Microsoft Media Centre Remote (model: 1039) RC6 ir and followed your VLC Player preference settings guide and installed the the Set-Up files. I use XP Home Edition not Media Centre. I can only get the Arrow Keys and the OK button to function however can’t get any other buttons to work so no transport buttons working. Your help would be appreciated, thanks : )
What does the app say when you push the other buttons? Do all the buttons work in Windows Media Player?
Hi Billwando, i got the remote working the following day. Did not realise the set-up files was an actual app. I used the app and it was a success. Worked great an ISO file DVD rip. On an AVI files some of the functions were not useable but on the whole i am very pleased with it. If the app could be used on BBC iPlayer and iTunes that would be great but i don’t think that it would be possible. Thanks for this : )
Glad you got it up & running! It does everything I’ve tried to do with it, besides fast forwarding & rewinding correctly. What issues were you having with AVIs?
As for the web player issues, I wonder if they have keyboard shortcuts? I’m sure somebody could program a remote app that at least does that.
Bit of a problem getting it all to work:
mceRemote2VLC show all the commands I’m sending from the remote, but it says also:
Device status: connected
VLC connection status: Unable to connect
(ofcourse I have set the right preferences)
Would appreciate a hint (or solution
I would advice to use putty to check if VLC is listening on port 8765 and listening to commands. It’s a standalone application, no need to install. In putty, set the connection to raw, host to 127.0.0.1 and port of course to 8765. Play a file and then type for example pause, or info in putty’s connection window.
I’m having exact same problem noted by martV on 04-8-10
I’ve never used Putty before, so maybe I’m missing a setting for the test to work.
I play a file in VLC Player then
In Putty Session menu:
IP Address Port
127.0.0.1 8765
Connection type:
(*)Raw
the window kept closing so I put (*) Never for close window on exit.
The following error windows pop up before I have a chance to type anything:
PuTTY
connection closed by remote host [OK]
PuTTY Fatal Error
Network error: Connection refused
Just to be sure. VLC is configured like the screenshots in these pictcures ?
You will have to restart VLC after these changes.
1 – http://www.arenddeboer.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/setting1.png
2 – http://www.arenddeboer.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/setting2.png
The PuTTY settings look fine. It’s VLC that needs attention.
Somehow I missed the step to “Check “Remote control interface””, instead I had pushed the [+] to expand the “Main Interfaces” and filled in the rest correctly.
It now seems to be working fine – the 1st screen shot showed me my error.
Thank you so much for your little program and great customer service – you are my hero
Yeah, that same thing got me for about 5 minutes when I recently reinstalled.
Looks like there is room for improvement in the documentation section.
I will update the post with the screen shots.
Thanks
All working win 7
Thank you Just what i was looking for
Slim
All Working Windows 7 x64
nicee job =D
can you show the source code?
Thanks.
Here is the source: http://www.arenddeboer.com/mceRemote2vlc.rar
Will it work with this remote? Sory for a n00b question but I am buying a remote only for VLC and am afraid to pick the wrong one
http://cgi.ebay.com/Toshiba-MCE-Remote-Control-USB-IR-Receiver-Win7-Vista-/220602511759?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item335cef318f
Tnx in advance
I think it will work just fine.
Thanks, waiting for the remote to arrive
can’t wait to try the mod out.
Np, let me know how it works out.
Would be able to mod your app to accept a user defined rc port number instead of 8765?
Hi Tim,
No problem. I hope to have something ready in about 5 hours.
I think it makes sense to also allow for the ip address to be user defined.
New version:
- Users can change the ip and port number
- More accurate device (ir remote) status
- SQLite db is stored in “users\AppData\mceRemote2VLC\” instead of the “Program Files\mceRemote2VLC”
This new version will not import your old custom mappings.
If you don’t need user defined ip/port settings, you probably don’t need to update.
http://www.arenddeboer.com/Setup.msi
Tried installing BETA and got error:
The following properties have been set:
Property: [AdminUser] = true {boolean}
Property: [ProcessorArchitecture] = Intel {string}
Property: [VersionNT] = 6.1.0 {version}
Running checks for package ‘Windows Installer 3.1′, phase BuildList
The following properties have been set for package ‘Windows Installer 3.1′:
Running checks for command ‘WindowsInstaller3_1\WindowsInstaller-KB893803-v2-x86.exe’
Result of running operator ‘VersionGreaterThanOrEqualTo’ on property ‘VersionMsi’ and value ’3.1′: true
Result of checks for command ‘WindowsInstaller3_1\WindowsInstaller-KB893803-v2-x86.exe’ is ‘Bypass’
‘Windows Installer 3.1′ RunCheck result: No Install Needed
Running checks for package ‘.NET Framework 3.5′, phase BuildList
Reading value ‘Install’ of registry key ‘HKLM\Software\Microsoft\NET Framework Setup\NDP\v3.5\1033′
Read integer value 1
Setting value ’1 {int}’ for property ‘DotNet35InstallSuccess’
The following properties have been set for package ‘.NET Framework 3.5′:
Property: [DotNet35InstallSuccess] = 1 {int}
Running checks for command ‘DotNetFX35\dotNetFx35setup.exe’
Result of running operator ‘ValueEqualTo’ on property ‘DotNet35InstallSuccess’ and value ’1′: true
Result of checks for command ‘DotNetFX35\dotNetFx35setup.exe’ is ‘Bypass’
‘.NET Framework 3.5′ RunCheck result: No Install Needed
Launching Application.
Error: Unable to locate application file ‘Setup.msi’.
Regards,
Tim
Thanks for testing, please try this one:
http://www.arenddeboer.com/Setup.msi
Yes, the msi works fine. I tested the user-defined IP address and port number, and they both work great. Nice!
If you would like, I may be able to send you some code that would allow hostname to be used as substitute for IP address.
I was thinking this feature is going to be used mostly in a home network without DNS configured. Wouldn’t an IP address be better for this use case? Maybe both IP and hostname should be possible.
True most home LAN’s dont run a DNS, but I believe the .Net code that resolves IP from name will use NetBIOS over TCP/IP (NBT) as an alternate if DNS resolve is not possible, I think all Windows machines maintain a legacy NetBIOS namespace. I’ve used this snippet of c# code
// Get IPV4 address from host name
private IPAddress Get_IPV4Address_From_Host(string hostName)
{
IPAddress[] ipAddrList;
IPAddress ipv4Address = null;
try
{
ipAddrList = Dns.GetHostEntry(hostName).AddressList;
}
catch (SocketException e)
{
ipAddrList = null;
Write_ToLog(LOG_MSGTYPE_ERROR, “Host: ” + hostName + ” DNS resolve error: ” + e.ErrorCode.ToString() + “. ” + e.Message);
}
if (ipAddrList != null)
{
for (int i = 0; i < ipAddrList.Length; i++)
if (ipAddrList[i].AddressFamily == System.Net.Sockets.AddressFamily.InterNetwork)
{
ipv4Address = ipAddrList[i];
break;
}
}
else
ipv4Address = IPAddress.Parse("127.0.0.1"); // Set to 127.0.0.1 to indicate error to calling routine
return ipv4Address;
}
Makes sense. I will look into this. Thank you for the code snippet.
I am excited to try this, so I can use an MCE remote with VLC. After installation and running ‘mlcRemote2vlc’, it doesn’t seem to work for me. ‘Device status’ shows ‘disconnected’ . Yet, my remote seems to be ok and I can select different icons on my Desktop ok by pressing the arrow keys on the remote. Furthermore, XP device manager shows HID device, etc. I also installed latest updates for .NET 3.5, etc. Any suggestions? Did I do something incorrectly? What can I do to debug this? Rgds — JM
Did you try the latest beta ?
The device status in earlier versions is less reliable. Please make sure VLC accepts commands on port 8765.
This can be done with PuTTY. How exactly is detailed here: http://www.arenddeboer.com/mce-remote-with-vlc/comment-page-2/#comment-241
Hello, would you publish the source?
Thanks.
The latest beta source : http://www.arenddeboer.com/mceRemote2vlc.rar
Its quite poorly written. Started as a hack to see if I could control vlc with the media portal libs. Then added some buttons here and there, removed something here, added something there. In short no overall design and a lack of a coding convention. I hope to update this program one day so I don’t have to be ashamed while sharing the source
Hey Arend,
cery well done! I love your little tool and use it very often.
But unfortunately it seems to be a little buggy (or it´s me for not getting it to work properly).
When your program is running and I go to the Media Centers music library, the Center missunderstands some commands. Pressing the skip-button, doesn´t work in the first place and then finally is interpreted as a “Stop”-command. After having quit your program everything works fine again.
The second thing is, that I´m not able to fast forward the movies in VLC, when having started it out of Media Browser. When I start VLC from the explorer or the desktop, it seems to work fine (10 second jumps).
Do you have any suggestions, to solve this problems?
But apart from that, it´s a fantastic small piece of software. Thank you very much!
Thanks. I just tested your first problem and MCE does indeed act strange when mceRemote2VLC is running. I do not fully understand why this happens since the remote buttons are not trapped or altered in any way. I might be able to prevent this from happening by temporary disabling mceRemote2VLC when it detects MCE running as the foreground application. I am not sure how this will affect other users as they may rely on the current behavior. (not sure about the use case though) Maybe this should be an option in the settings panel.
I suppose it requires a continues polling of the foreground window.
I installed the Media Browser plugin, but I cannot reproduce your second problem. Some questions:
- Did you set VLC to to listen for rc commands using VLC’s settings page ?
- Or perhaps by adding the –rc-host your_host:port flags ?
- Windows 7 / Vista / XP?
- mceRemote2VLC beta, or 1.0?
Thank you very much for your fast answer and testings.
If I understand you in the right way, you wanna know, if VLC does react at all. If you mean that, I can say: yes it does it very well.
Even when I start it out of Media Browser, I can switch between subtitles and languages (I reconfigured the buttons for this commands, because, the defaults were making trouble with Media Control). The only thing, that doesn´t work (out of Media Browser), is the fast forward (rewind). Sometimes (in very rare cases) it makes the 10 seconds jump, but mostly it makes the VLC to drop to the frame, where it was right in the moment, I pushed the fast forward.
VLC doesn´t have this behaviour, when beeing launched without Media Browser.
I deinstalled Media Controll, cause after having your fine tool, I don´t need it anymore, but it had no effect.
I´m running Windows 7 64bit and the latest version, you posted in the comments.
But if you could fix the MCE Problems (perhaps as an option in the settings), it would be great.
I think your second problem is going to be the hard one as I do not know what is causing VLC to miss the request. Do all the forward button presses show up in the “Commands to VLC” box?
It seems to be a problem of VLC itself. So don´t worry. Even when i just use the hotkeys on my keyboard, VLC reacts in an inkonsistent way. Pressing the button for a 10 sec skip (shift right) it jumps 10 secs for the first time. If I repeat this too fast, it jumps sometimes 7 secs, sometimes not at all.
So this is fine.
To avoid this behaviour, I redifined my skip and replay buttons on the remote, to make longer jumps, cause I don´t use the playlist and have therefore the skip button unused.
But if it would be possible to solve my first problem, I would be really glad.
hi,
nice tool. it works perfectly.
but can you please add an option, to start this tool minimized at windows startup?
thanks in advance
No problem, but it will be placed on the todo-list.
Currently containing:
- handle IP as well as hostname in settings dialog
- fix remote issue’s when MCE has focus.
- Add option to start minimized
- Disable “button pressed” dropdown from changing on selecting a “Map to VLC command” entry in “Settings->create mapping”
Folks,
Some notes.
First of all, I just upograded VLC to V1.1.2.
In this (and I suppose future) Version the RC interface has been depreciated. For the time being it remains available as “oldrc”.
It may be due to the replacement of “RC” with “OLDRC” that VLC connection status is now always “offline” even though VLC received remote commands correctly.
Also, when installing this version of VLC you must uninstall the previous version AND use “clear cache and settings” and manually re-set everything. If you keep the old settings with the interface setting for RC VLC will more or less lock up.
I would actually suggest that Arend submits the work here to the VLC team for inclusion with VLC as build in interface. Pending that I can think of a few more things.
I do not use VLC with MCE/MyMovies, but Media Portal, so I do not have the related issues.
However, it may be desirable that MCERemote2VLC does trap the MCE Remote commands when VLC is playing media in the foreground.
As it stands some buttons cause misbehaviour in MP in the background.
For starting minimised, simply create the icon for starting MCERemote2VLC with the window set to minimised. Adding a setting item “start with windows” that creates an icon-copy in startup would help some users.
For MCE/MyMovies I think the MCE Remote’s “Green Button” shold bring MCE back.
Is so, maybe a setting “send green button” on Stop/Quit option could fix the current irritation easily.
Finally, I would suggest including a checkbox that allows forced setting of VLC for Interface etc., as I can see this an issue for many people.
Perhaps even a second checkbox to set the settings for MyMovies to use VLC.
BTW, my own settings for starting VLC 1.1.2 as external Player in MP are as follows:
%filename% -I extraintf oldrc rc-host localhost:8765 rc-quiet
The “%filename%” part brings in the file being played, the rest forces VLC to the correct interface settings all the time.
My main VLC Icon has extra arguments of -I qt appended, so I always get a normal copy of VLC started if I explicitly invoke it (to tweak some settings or such).
Greez SSAL
Back and Replay should be remapped from previous to prev for VLC 1.0.5
Thanks. The entire RC interface of VLC seems to be deprecated in VLC 1.1. I think in favor of the HTTP interface. I will have to look into that too.
Great utility, I am unable to see that it is connecting to the VLC player but not the remote device. I have a nero liquid tv remote. In the VLC key settings, some keys are recoginized by the application but not ff/rew.
Is there a way you can add the hardware support for this ir usb dongle?
Hi Deeps,
I would love to help you but I would probably need access to that specific remote. I’m also busy with a few commercial projects, you will understand that is my first priority.
- If the remote works in MediaPortal I might be able to make it work in mceRemote2VLC. But a quick check suggest this is not the case.
- You might want to try EventGhost It has support for VLC and supports a wide range of remotes. It’s just a bit harder to configure.
Hi there.
First of all thanks for the great work.
I have an issue though. I’m using a HP dv5 with vista and I have an HP IR remote.
All the buttons work fine except for the play button. The button is recognized as “button 110″ by the soft, I tried mapping it following the instructions but it won’t work.
I looked up on some forums and other people have the same kind of issue with the HP remote and the play button.
I’m trying my luck here to see if anyone has any ideas.
Thanks in advance.
hi Zac,
Sorry to hear your remote doesn’t work properly.
Are you saying pressing the button gives you a “button 101″ message in the “button pressed” log box inside mceRemote2VLC?
If this is the case, I think a small update can make it work.
Why does this interface still have to look that ugly ? We are living in 2010 – and the white web-gui is worse than the old curses-dos-interfaces…
can you make your app integrated with VLC
and you can use a multimedia keyboard with iTunes
http://www.everythingitunes.com/os/windows/2008-01-04/mmkeysdll/
I don’t think VLC has such a plugin folder like iTunes where you can drop a dll and it’s pickud up. VLC 1.1. however introduced new add-ons and script framework options. So it integration might be possible now.
I however lack the time to implement this, at least for the coming months.
arend, check this out
http://melloware.com/products/intelliremote/
I am aware of intelliremote. Sounds like a great app, but I don’t have a need for it. My app does everything I need. And besides, it’s not free.
Hi,
I tried to use Intelliremote for a while (with MPC-HC). I gave up. It takes way too much to set up to work correctly to the kind of level I get easily with MCERemote2VLC and it is expensive for a simple remote control helper app with so little real support for applications.
In fact, some of my earlier suggestions to Arend directly derived from my frustration with Intelliremote.
Greez SSAL
Thank you for the work – much appreciated…!
First thanks for your great work. I use VLC player 1.1.0 and Win7x64 . I download the setup.msi and install it. Then I made your recommended settings in VLC. Then I started manually mceRemote2vlc.exe and VLC player. My Remote Harmony One with “MCE” profile works well in VLC player, great job, great thanks.
But mceRemote2vlc.exe start every time manually is not for lazy people like me. So I created shortcut and copied to Windows startup. When the PC restarts mceRemote2vlc starts now, but first small problem: It starts in the “window mode” not as a tray, i have to resize it manually. there is a solution?
But now the big problem: I use Win7 MCE. To play my movie collection, I use the plugin “MyMovies”. In the MyMovies configuration I choose VLC player as the “external players” because he plays well MKV etc.. WMP12/7MC as “Windows Media standard” can not do that.
When I use the MCE plugin “MyMovies” select a movie and start to, MCE minimized in the taskbar, start Vlc player and go into full screen mode, the movie is beautiful and everything can be used with MCE remote. If the movie is over or I press “Quitt” on the remote, exits and closes VLC player and MCE would have to back to “full screen mode”. Sorry, but MCE is minimized.
I found out that it creates the current mceRemote2vlc.exe. Whether it is running in windowed mode or as a tray icon, MCE not maximized. Only when I manually mceRemote2vlc finish to maximize MCE again automatically. This is not very comfortable.
Is there a way mceRemote2vlc.exe only at the start of vlc.exe start automatically and at the end of vlc.exe terminate automatically again? Or a different solution to my problem?
Sorry for my bad english, I’m German. Thank you. Greetings Ralf
Hi Ralf,
Thank you.
You have a good point here and as I think about it, your suggestion might even solve other problems people are experiencing while running mceRemote2VLC in tandem with MCE. I’m currently working on a project that requires my undivided attention. But I will definitely look into this in the coming weeks. Together with the option to start minimized as this has been requested before.
Regards,
Arend
Hi Arend
Nice to hear this, I am a patient person. I look forward and hope you will find a solution for the future. Thanks again. Greetings Ralf
Thanks for this great tool, but im having a bit of trouble in mce itself with the remote commands.
In VLC everything works fine but when im in live tv in win7mc while watching live tv the left righ up down and fast forward rewind info buttons dont work they all just act as a stop button in all kinds of media also not just live tv…
Thanks
There is a known incompatibility while running MCE and mceRemote2VLC simultaneously. I will try to fix this by only starting mceRemote2VLC when VLC is started as an external player. It will probably take about a month before a fix is released.
This works wonderfully but is there any way to give priority to vlc when using media center? Right now i have vlc working as an external player so when i play .mkv’s the media browser plugin minimizes media center and opens vlc but my remote is still controlling media center. Any help would be great. I’m using windows 7.
Some remote buttons are hard wired and will always reach media center whether it has focus or not. These buttons should not be used to control vlc when they have to run at the same time. The play buttons for instance will start a recording even if mce does not have have focus if media center is in “Recorded TV” Nothing happens when it is on it’s main screen. This might be trial and error before you have a working set (I don’t use vlc and mce at the same time).
On a related note, I hope to start working on this project again in September/Oktober. I just don’t have the time right now.
@GF
I work with MyMovies and VLC (external Player) in MCE (Win7x64). I us a Logitech “Harmony One” Remote with MCE-Profil and a USB-RC6-IR-Controller. All Buttons works fine with VLC for me, but one Problem, read my post from 13/07/2010:
“When I use the MCE plugin “MyMovies” select a movie and start to, MCE minimized in the taskbar, start Vlc player and go into full screen mode, the movie is beautiful and everything can be used with MCE remote. If the movie is over or I press “Quitt” on the remote, exits and closes VLC player and MCE would have to back to “full screen mode”. Sorry, but MCE is minimized.
I found out that it creates the current mceRemote2vlc.exe. Whether it is running in windowed mode or as a tray icon, MCE not maximized. Only when I manually mceRemote2vlc finish to maximize MCE again automatically. This is not very comfortable. ”
I hope Arend make a solution for this, but we must give him time….
PS: I us MCE in Full-Screen-Modus, not Window-Modus. Hope its help you.
Hello, my first time trying the software, as it looks like it has promise. I tried the s/w upon a few trials and errors, and it managed to rewind, fast forward and the like; so, I will be checking back for updates. I have a multitude of players, GOM which I use constantly, Windows Media Center, which I never use at all, VLC which I use to an extent, and WinAmp I never use at all. I just like to use remote to rewind and fast/forward without having to use keyboard/mouse to navigate. Thank you so much for this, and will check back for more info or updates.
Okay folks I know it has been quiet lately, a big project is reaching it’s deadline, still much to do but there is light at the end of the tunnel
I will review all comments and decide the best course of action somewhere mid September.
Good sound arend
Thank you very match
Works fine, thank you very much!